Member Since: 29 Mar 2007
Location: near Basel
Posts: 235
A small device which can be installed on the dash and allows me to rise the car to max height in offroad mode would be much appreciated. I don't need any additional functions
26th Feb 2009 8:52 am
caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
I have such a button on mine.
Shortens the rods so off road becomes extended but not super extended. At on road height it can become off road height without dropping at 40kph.
System of acuators replacing the rods and accociated contol lines.
Re-program of system would be simpler.“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
26th Feb 2009 9:05 am
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
No sign of the speed threshold values to be had in normal diagnostic mode, however I can put the EAS ECU into a manufacturer mode, and i do have the memory map of the ECU's EEPROM. So as long as the value is stored in there somewhere, and i can figure out where, then i can very likely change it diagnostically. It is something i had noted the requirement for.
Martin, what you want is easy, just open the four corner valves and the exhaust and she drops right down to the deck like a stone. It will stay there till you start it up and close all the doors.
Catweasel, the only things you can log are live input values. Our vehicle explorer software has a couple of capabilities to capture live data as either an AVI video file or as CSV for import into a spread sheet. Here is link to an instructional video showing how that works.
http://www.blackbox-solutions.com/download...ection.wmv
However as i have said, our Disco 3 software is only just getting such things added as live data pages.
one of the ones we just added for the EAS is the 4 corner sensor values.
Which brings me to Willy, no offense taken mate, easy mistake to make, but i really am not currently here to drum up business or promote our system to any Disco 3 owner. Currently we are quite happy just being the worlds premier supplier of the most feature rich and capable diagnostic equipment there is to Range Rover Classic, P38, L322 to 2005, Disco 1, Disco 2, Defender and Freelander 1 owners across the world. In all these cases we provide access to every single feature and function the vehicle systems support with very few exceptions. However the later generation CAN BUS based vehicles such as the Disco 3 is so technologically advanced over the earlier ones, that to do it all would take a couple of years or so. Therefore it makes sense for me to do a bit of research amongst owners and enthusiasts to learn what areas and features would be of use or interest and therefore need to be done first.
As with our system, in respect of all previous models, as the vehicles get older and cheaper, the demand for good private diagnostic equipment occurs automatically and as we have happily and successfully done for many years, we will end up supplying that demand for maturing D3's as well, regardless of if i sponsor this board or not or if i am here to drum up business or just to help ensure that when someone with an older D3 is looking to save themselves money in repairs / servicing costs, gain comfort and assurance and fore think the inevitable, that our equipment does what will be wanted and needed of it rather than something else instead.
So while presently many of this forums members may well not actually think my motives may be suspect, or there is no point or value in even thinking of spending a few hundred Euro on a diagnostic system for their Disco 3 and my posts and presence here might well be of no interest to them at all, things will change, and i can assure you that there are several thousand other Land Rover owners in the world that are pretty damned happy to have me around sticking my nose into Land Rovers business. And you know the most popular comment i get, is "i wish i had bought one of these years ago"
warmest regards
26th Feb 2009 9:05 am
catweasel
Member Since: 05 May 2006
Location: Bundaleer
Posts: 4805
Roel wrote:
You can watch a lot off parameters
not much point in getting a pc to log things (faults perhaps not everything) if Im going to watch them. its called evidence.
26th Feb 2009 9:14 am
Roel
Member Since: 16 Aug 2008
Location: home
Posts: 1215
Userfehler,
I would rather have the posibility to raise the D3 further with the existing buttons.
Like if you are in off-road mode push the height selector up another time to go to Extended mode and the another time to go to maximum height.
I don't like additional boxes with additonal buttons. Just tune the existing software.
But then you have the problem off software updates! Roel
1997 Camel Trophy Disco ex-P101JWK (traded it for a Britains 42101)
1984 90 TD5
2005 G4 Disco 3 BN55WPT
Also member of club MTR
and Club Faultmate
Interested in my 4x4 history see my website: www.mudmachine.webklik.nl
Sorry it's in Dutch and with google translator it gets funny.
26th Feb 2009 9:22 am
Carabraxis
Member Since: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 220
I have a 2005 model SE with the high line 6 CD (not the premium unit)
I would like to be able to do the following
1. Read all fault codes and clear them
2. Reset the service indicator
3. Enable hidden functions such as 4x4 info screen, off road nav (and others that I don't know are there yet)
4. Enable the 3 video inputs on the touch screen so I can add aftermarket rear view cam, DVD etc. without using the diagnostic menu to turn them on
5. Adjust the standard ride height up by a couple of inches (i.e. to off road height) for off road use or increase the speed at which the car lowers from off road height
6. Enable entry on the move in the sat nav
7. With a single vehicle system, be able at low or no cost change the vin to which the unit relates for when I change the car
8. Have a buying option both at initial purchase and after purchase to add 1 or more additional vins to the licence (I would like us to have 2 x disco 3's - one for me and one for SWMBO)
9. Be able to buy the whole system as a package (I looked at your online shop and was confused by what pack included what) to include the cable to the car, the interface module, the cable to the PC and the PC software to change things. If this was under £ 250 for a single vehicle then I would invest in one.
I would like 1, 2 and 5 to be able to be done with the interface unit only, the others via a PC.
Hope this helps with your development
26th Feb 2009 9:49 am
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Did anyone get to see the EAS Kicker Air suspension project we did for the Range Rover owners.
Click image to enlarge
You can update it by connecting it to a PC.
26th Feb 2009 9:52 am
PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
Carabraxis wrote:
If this was under £ 250 for a single vehicle then I would invest in one.
I would like 1, 2 and 5 to be able to be done with the interface unit only, the others via a PC.
Hope this helps with your development
I've been watching this thread for a day or two and I think Carabraxis's post could be very useful for Colin....a very clear list of features that would probably encompass what 95% of users would like to see...
I have no sat-nav in my D3 (I have a CarPC instead) but his feature set would also be perfect for me....
I guess that 250 GBP/300 EUR (including everything mentioned) is not a realistic selling price for BBS, but it is a price I would personally be willing to pay for a 90% finished product and put up with a few 'software updates' to correct them in a timely fashion.
I guess it comes down to doing the numbers.....for me the Matzker suspension module would be perfect, but the price is way above what I am willing (or able) to pay...if they had managed to price it at around 300-400 euros instead of ±1500 euros then almost every D3 owner I know would have bought one. As it is with the current price, I only know of 2 in the whole of Spain.
I've been following BBS's progress over the last year or two and I would love to get hold of something like the extreme, but as Carabraxis says the pricing structure is way too complicated for home-users and due to that I've no idea how much it would all cost other than the fact it would probably be too expensive...
I know that the multi-vehicle/license model works well for workshops and independant tech guys, but for home-users it is overly complicated...
Colin - Any chance of a simple to understand package deal (in terms of what it costs, what is included and what it can do out of the box) for us garage tinkerers?
Cheers,
Paul2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE AutoBuckingham Blue 2007 Golf GT DSG
26th Feb 2009 10:08 am
GraemeS
Member Since: 17 Mar 2008
Location: NSW
Posts: 706
I don't have a D3 yet, but 2 things make me nervous for when I get one (which I will):
1. Destroying the exhaust on sections of outback roads when lifting to off-road height at the press of a button would prevent damage, whether that be by a permanent removal of the speed limit or by raising std height to that height.
2. Having to get the dealer to set wheel alignment mode as dealers are few and far between in Aus.
If an EAS-kicker style of box could achieve this without being too costly, I think you would sell heaps of them.
26th Feb 2009 10:13 am
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Carabraxis
Thanks for your input.
1 and 2 we have already done and released for a long time,
3 and 4 and 6 are just part of the CCF edit feature we are just completing for release as seen here on this forum. Although i am still figuring out what the items we can change in the CCF do what on the vehicle.
5 as you can see where we are at on that, and i just discussed road speed relation aspect, but nice to see someone else stating their desire for that
8 is already catered for, our Vehicle servers can accommodate up to 3 vehicles licensed as single vehicles, ie the software is much cheaper but is locked to a specific vehicle by VIN
7 is also catered for already, a single vehicle license can be freed and re licensed to another vehicle by entering codes we provide into the system. if the vehicle is the same technology group IE all CAN vehicles are the same, that incurs only an admin fee. This means even single vehicle systems are easily re sold for most of their initial outlay cost.
in answer to 9, We do provide all inclusive software and hardware kits, under the KITS section, but we offer so much flexibility in the way our systems can be purchased that all the options can easily seem confusing and overwhelming. But anyone need only ask. for full capability SV122 for the NANO and SV222 for the EXTREME at 752 and 806 Euro respectively and to just read and clear faults we do SV322 (NANO) and SV422(EXTREME) at 444 and 498 Euro respectively.
These prices are what they are and like Land Rover make no apology for the cost of a Disco 3 over that of a Rav 4, i make no apology for them, they have already been discounted to their lowest possible level and so if anything the price will actually go up.
Quote:
2 and 5 to be able to be done with the interface unit only
I would not like to commit at this stage to saying or promising that they are planned as stand alone features on our EXTREME. But then who knows, with enough demand, anything is possible as you see by the EAS Kicker.
regards
26th Feb 2009 10:28 am
Roel
Member Since: 16 Aug 2008
Location: home
Posts: 1215
I have had contact with Colin a few times, and I am thinking more or less the same I would love to have a system like that but find the price a little high for me on the moment.
AFAIK in principle for the D3 there are 4 packages.
- You can choose for Fault reading and clearing only or be able to get into the software and really change things.
- And you can choose for the Nano system here you need a computer for everything or for the extreme system which has the LCD screen and you can do a lot without a computer.
Look in the pricelist for SV122,SV222,SV322,SV422.Roel
1997 Camel Trophy Disco ex-P101JWK (traded it for a Britains 42101)
1984 90 TD5
2005 G4 Disco 3 BN55WPT
Also member of club MTR
and Club Faultmate
Interested in my 4x4 history see my website: www.mudmachine.webklik.nl
Sorry it's in Dutch and with google translator it gets funny.
26th Feb 2009 10:32 am
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
The price aspect is always a difficult one and i do get the billions of pennys = 1 at a billion pence, but not if they cost 2 pence to make.
That shiny blue box is not empty you know, its actually got some of the very latest micro miniature technology in it and as well as the main one, it has a number of custom micro processors in it and believe it or not it even has a licensed copy of an AMI bios in it. They are all hand built and extensively tested which all takes time and money.
Then there is the VCI 2, Thats actually built into the OBDII plug body, as many as 50 components crammed onto a super small PCB and a custom 40MHZ micro controller at its heart to seamlessly interact with both CAN busses
if i get some time i will do some pictures so you see what i mean.
So given that there is a minimum fixed cost to the systems hardware and that the years of extensive development me and my staff do has to be paid for somehow, you end up at a minimum price you can supply at. If thats more than people are willing to pay, or they have unrealistic / dreamy expectations or hopes, then there is not really that much anyone can do about it beyond what i am already doing.
and i would rather not make anything at all rather than some piece of crap.
and owning a D3 over something else means you must appreciate my sentiment
speaking of already doing.
I found this quite interesting. As you will have read, we are poking around with editing the CCF settings, but there are hundreds and not all are used or of any use, so to get an overview on what is used, i had the bright idea to look at what changes from vehicle to vehicle. As i have access to the As build CCF data for all Disco 3's that were ever built, which includes yours i decided to get one of my new guys to knock up an analysis program to go through 120 thousand of them and collate the data into a spread sheet showing how many numerically and in percentage wise are set to what options.
Well i just got the results handed to me and obviously its all very interesting and will allow me to now easily filter out the stuff thats of no use and concentrate on the useful stuff only and get the feature closer to release, however almost immediately i spotted that there are in fact 7 TDV8 Disco 3's listed Could be data errors but i doubt it as all the other stuff looks just right.
Last edited by BBS SPY on 27th Feb 2009 7:52 am. Edited 1 time in total
26th Feb 2009 11:05 am
userfehler
Member Since: 29 Mar 2007
Location: near Basel
Posts: 235
Roel wrote:
I would rather have the posibility to raise the D3 further with the existing buttons.
Like if you are in off-road mode push the height selector up another time to go to Extended mode and the another time to go to maximum height.
Well stated! Of course that would be even better
26th Feb 2009 4:08 pm
Carabraxis
Member Since: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 220
BBS, glad that you thought my comments useful
Regarding the price I quoted, it was just intended to be a stick in the sand. I accept that £250 may be a little low but I thought I read that the base unit was 149 euro earlier in your original posting
Firstly, I understand that there is a cost to make anything and there is a cost to develop software. However as unit sales go up the unit cost of manufacture go down - especially once you go away from hand building. Also the software development cost per unit can go down as the amortisation improves.
Basically (and I am ready to be corrected / shot down) I think there are 4 types of user on here who make up your potential customers.
Type 1 being people in the motor trade who make money out of servicing / repairing vehicles and I agree with your approach in having a unit that can attach to all vehicles has a higher price.
Type 2 is the non DIY type. For them it dosen't matter what price the unit is as they will always take the vehicle to someone to fix.
Type 3 is the person who goes on expeditions and having a simple device to resert faults is very useful or even essential. Cost here I don't believe is a massive issue (so long as it is affordable) as getting stuck somewhere is a major problem. I don't believe however that this is a very large group of users.
Type 4 is the tinkerer and DIYer (which is where I fit). This user group is probably your highest volume customer. For them if the unit is too expensive - and I suggest at 800+ euro it is this group will get someone else to fix it and it justwon't be worth it to just enable a missing feature
I accept your logic over buying a D3 over a Micra but I didn't buy a Range Rover either. Thats not because I could not raise the money it's because it just was not worth it for me. My point was that for me, under £250 or maybe even £350 it would be worth it to change things and have the diagnostic capability but much more than that and I'll take it to the dealer / independent or not bother with the modification.
26th Feb 2009 9:37 pm
Roel
Member Since: 16 Aug 2008
Location: home
Posts: 1215
Finally I know what I am. I am a type 4!!!!! Who drive a G4.
But who like to be partly a Type 3.
You say it exactely right. I would like to play with it and do some maintenance myselves. With my D1 I did everything myselves but am not sure enough about the electronics yet.Roel
1997 Camel Trophy Disco ex-P101JWK (traded it for a Britains 42101)
1984 90 TD5
2005 G4 Disco 3 BN55WPT
Also member of club MTR
and Club Faultmate
Interested in my 4x4 history see my website: www.mudmachine.webklik.nl
Sorry it's in Dutch and with google translator it gets funny.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
i decided to get one of my new guys to knock up an analysis program to go through 120 thousand of them and collate the data into a spread sheet showing how many numerically and in percentage wise are set to what options.
