Member Since: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 1359
So will there be a general recall, as from what you're saying ALL vehicles could suffer from the problem? It would appear that mine could be caused by my fairly gentle driving style, but it still shouldn't happen on a well developed engine (or is it the usual case that LR churn out under-developed products and then bury their heads in the sand, hoping that "old" customers go away, whilst new "mugs" are drawn in by the bling?).
We're going to the south of France next week, so could do without anything going "pop".
24th Aug 2012 4:01 pm
CUCO
Member Since: 26 May 2011
Location: Spain & Oleee!!!
Posts: 609
I don´t say it must be done to all vehicles, only to the ones that smokes or at owner complaint (maybe), or make an uprated part that cures the "easy drive" smokes when it appears to eliminate the problem on certain cars.
for example: BMW do it with the turbos that fails in the 320d here, they mount to fix it the german spec turbo, bigger and beefed, more slow reaction but hey! they last!! a lot of 320d have the original turbos, so for a vast mayority the small spec "non over 120 mph on average country turbo" work and last as expected.
a general recall will be a non-sense way if there is not a security recogniced failure that put the use of the vehicle, occupants and/or rest of cars on road at risk.
if there is no complaint or fail...what is needed to get fixed? if it works-don't touch it.
Last edited by CUCO on 24th Aug 2012 4:56 pm. Edited 1 time in total
24th Aug 2012 4:48 pm
nigel207
Member Since: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 1359
If there's the possibility that any (all?) vehicles could suffer, then there is a general problem, and one that LR are aware of, so there either should be a full recall for modification, or an unlimited age/mileage limit as to when a claim can be made then.
24th Aug 2012 4:55 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
Recalls are only made on safety issues ...not general problems ...this would be dealt with under a TSB \ Service action notice IMO 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
Last edited by DG on 24th Aug 2012 5:27 pm. Edited 1 time in total
24th Aug 2012 5:03 pm
CUCO
Member Since: 26 May 2011
Location: Spain & Oleee!!!
Posts: 609
yes, I agree, as they do with the clock spring, and brake booster oiling fail and the eating splines input shaft diffs on range rovers that LR fix without cost but...how many years after???
Member Since: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Reading
Posts: 195
I agree that you should not have to drive a vehicle as expensive as a Discovery in a particular manor, I am merely suggesting a method to reduce the problem until the fix is worked.
Nigel, I would not worry about it going pop. From what I understand it is a very small amount of oil that can make a large cloud of smoke. I would doubt the oil level has changed massively? You'll probably find in a cross contintal trip that the problem will clear in the short term (have a good trip). A low engine oil level could cause problem; small migration of oil past the turbo seal is unlikely to cause a problem.
Regards
Mark.Gone: 2010MY 59 plate Bali Blue HSE.
Also gone : 2012MY 12 plate Firenze Red HSE.
In Bits : 2005 55plate 4.0 V8 Ibex 250s SW.
24th Aug 2012 5:20 pm
Russell
Member Since: 23 Aug 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 10564
From memory when I had my original D4 with the smoking issue, and there wre two of us who were the first to have this issue this was just over two years ago). LR worked hard to cure it, new turbos which were re-designed, new pipe work with one way valves and many other component changes to try to eliminate the issue. Was also asked to monitor oil levels and drive with diffrent styles. I beleive they also did a software mod that meant one of the turbos would go through a run up/down cycle to try to elliminate the issue. The problem did get better but never completly cured.MY17 D5 1st Edition Namib Orange
MY15 D4 HSE Kaikoura Stone
MY12 D4 HSE Nara Bronze Sold and gone
MY11 D4 HSE Stornaway Grey Sold and gone
D3 S spec Silver Sold and gone
Tow bar, full length roof bars, side steps, tow bar storage unit, surround camers.
D4 camera club
24th Aug 2012 6:23 pm
Reginald Molehusband
Member Since: 17 Nov 2009
Location: West Calder
Posts: 632
Thanks to MILODOG4 for your experiences in Oz, it is certainly possible to live with this problem, it is just a matter of watching the oil level as it will gradually drop.
It does also play in to the hands of those who believe that 4x4s are planet-killing monsters.
I have been back to the dealers for what they said was a fix but turned out to be no more than working though a flow chart of tests and measurements which was passed back to Land Rover for assessment to decide whether I was eligible for further action. OUTRAGE.
After a somewhat irate phone call I am now assured that a fix will soon be on its way as there is another person with their car at the stealers with the same problem. As Russel points out it is 2 years since this was spotted and unfixed. I don't hold out much hope. 2016 D4 Landmark SDV6 (Euro6), Zanzibar (late run D4)
2009 D4 HSE TDV6, Bali blue (first run D4)
2007 RRS TDV8 HSE, some blue
.
Member Since: 23 Aug 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 10564
As has been said, there does not appear to be any diffrence in the driving other than the clouds of smoke. This can affect other drivers and can upset soem people. The point is on an expensive car it should not happenMY17 D5 1st Edition Namib Orange
MY15 D4 HSE Kaikoura Stone
MY12 D4 HSE Nara Bronze Sold and gone
MY11 D4 HSE Stornaway Grey Sold and gone
D3 S spec Silver Sold and gone
Tow bar, full length roof bars, side steps, tow bar storage unit, surround camers.
D4 camera club
25th Aug 2012 1:56 pm
747_JK
Member Since: 03 Apr 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 268
As the thread originator, I can confirm that the driving styles issue sounds wrong. I used to regularly do long motorway journeys and accelerate hard on slip roads and pulling out at junctions etc. it is not the case that I never engaged the second turbo regulars.
Furthermore, after my engine did finally did go bang, the new engine they fitted has been perfect (so far). No smoking at all, and my driving style has been identical over the 30k on the new engine as it was during the 14k on the first engine.
Sorry to hear OP are still having issues. Like Russell, I know jus how much of a pain this was.747_JK
"Moab is my happy place"
2019 Land Rover Discovery 5 HSE
2015 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE - SOLD
2010 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE with a serious smoking habit - SOLD
27th Aug 2012 10:29 am
Milodog4
Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: NSW
Posts: 8
There is a problem with my D4 3litre engine.
It is suggested that the oil accumulates in the second turbo and this passes into the exhaust on acceleration, hence the blue smoke. That summary misses the critical point that the oil is ingested into the combustion chambers en route to the exhaust.
In my initial experience and from what I have gathered from other reports, the ingested oil in some cases spontaneously combusts with a violent effect on the engine. In my initial case the engine stalled - dead accompanied by a loud backfire, and on later occasions coughed and misfired for a few moments. The lead-up to these has been, as suggested, steady driving followed by acceleration. The longer the lead up drive, the bigger the event.
On these bases surely we are dealing with a potentially damaging defect, not a mere embarrassment. How much of a misfire is needed to break something expensive? What is the impact of this "smoke' on the particulate filter?
After more than a few "foggings" over a 600km trip recently I am off to my dealer to start a "conversation" about this. More in due course.
Milodog4
27th Aug 2012 1:27 pm
747_JK
Member Since: 03 Apr 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 268
And don't except it Milodog4. My initial conversations with the dealer I was told that all big diesels smoke... When I pointed out that a company I work for makes 13 litre diesels and they don't smoke etc, they were left in a tricky corner. If in doubt, take some photos like I did and send them to Land Rover's customer relationship dept and ask them to confirm that what is happening is normal... That should get things moving in the right direction for you. Good luck with it. Worth persevering as the D4 is an otherwise super car and I now love mine again!747_JK
"Moab is my happy place"
2019 Land Rover Discovery 5 HSE
2015 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE - SOLD
2010 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE with a serious smoking habit - SOLD
27th Aug 2012 3:26 pm
caverD3
Member Since: 02 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
Another issue is the oil can wreck the cat as well.“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
Last edited by caverD3 on 28th Aug 2012 8:51 am. Edited 1 time in total
Deleted - not read full thread LR4 HSE 5.0 V8 Alaska White
LR4 HSE 5.0 V8 Nara Bronze (Gone)
D4 Landmark SDV6 Black(Gone)
Velar 240 S Eiger Grey
FLTRXST
28th Aug 2012 7:59 am
Reginald Molehusband
Member Since: 17 Nov 2009
Location: West Calder
Posts: 632
Update: Puntland have two D4 customers with this problem; and a FFRR 4-litre where it is known to be a problem, they say. Ouch!
I am heading for a couple of thousand miles on the continent soon and gave them a backstop date to get it fixed before I go and to their credit they have fessed up with the necessary part to fix it.
This is apparently a "modified pipe" which they will fit on Friday.
Here's hoping it does fix it ...2016 D4 Landmark SDV6 (Euro6), Zanzibar (late run D4)
2009 D4 HSE TDV6, Bali blue (first run D4)
2007 RRS TDV8 HSE, some blue
.
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