Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50979
A flawed beauty?
I've just got back from Paris after a great 24hrs in the city and most of today in the show ...here are my initial impressions....warts & all.
First off ...visuals ...it really is stunning in the flesh....It certainly captures the feeling of 'the future' in the same way that the D3 did compared to my D2. It also feels massive when you are stood next to it...I almost felt that it was twice the size of my 2015my
...and I'm really sorry to say that that's all I have to comment about it from a positive perspective at this time ...I haven't driven it obviously and I may have to put this down to an appalling presentation from LR at the Paris show ...the second time I've felt that they have really let themselves down there ...it's almost as though they gave a big Gallic shrug to the whole experience.
Don't get me wrong the lady that showed me around the motor was stunningly beautiful ...to the point where I had a tear in my eye .....she had a real desire to be helpful .....but sadly knew absolutely all about it.
It was quite obvious to me that after only a few days nobody is checking the motors over at the start of the day ...or if they are they don't give a flying about what they see....or the motors are completely up.
Let me put thing in perspective
The dash was like a 'Christmas tree' ....ring any bells ...especially 'Suspension fault'
The next thing that struck me was the dash binnacle was not pleasant on the eye ...and wasted opportunity to make more of the use of a screen for head on visuals.
Moving on....the centre cubby lid is a wonderful place to rest your arm ....however I found the HSE armrests to be a complete waste of time compared to the current model ...they could not be used effectively at all.
The worst experience of the viewing was the rear seats ...they failed to work properly on any of the models on the stand ...it left me wondering what on earth you would do in a 'real world', 'Goods in hand' or 'kids in tow' scenario if they failed as demonstrated. I felt that I wouldn't want them powered at all...give me manual.
Another thing to be mindful of is the seat colouring ...I appreciate that hundreds of bums had sat on them at the show since opening a few days ago but they were looking very worn and discoloured already. Not something I saw anywhere else at the show.
also Isofix labels were very intursive
The rear pockets of the front seats have gaps at the base where any of the little things you or your passengers would normally deposit in there like sweet wrappings, pens, coins whatever would end up on the floor.
I am trying to convince myself that my experience is compounded by the fact that what I've seen is related to the show and maybe a lack of care in the presentation by LR ....personally I would be having a serious word with whoever organised this debacle. From a current customer perspective it was shocking that vehicles could be presented in such a way.
Am I concentrating on the negatives ....well yes I bloody well am ...because that's all I was presented with. I will hold final judgement on the basis that I haven't driven it and I have experienced a condensed display of failure which may 'not be representative of the marque'
anyway ...my favourite motor of the show was this
The Skoda Kodiaq ...absolutely stunning colour, very well priced, very well specced, very solid build.
The Skoda is rather nice, although not in that colour!
5th Oct 2016 11:29 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14492
I fear my old bus will be my first and last LR. I didn't see any point in upgrading to a D4 so thought I would wait for the D5. It would appear that LR has created another anonymous 4x4 clone. D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)
New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!) Sold
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
5th Oct 2016 11:36 pm
cpt_splash
Member Since: 02 Oct 2012
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 20
Great review. I am going to Paris on Saturday so will see if these issues are still present.
I would use social media for this, as it seems to get results. My own D4 has been in the garage for nearly 9 weeks and so far, we have not had great customer service from LR. As soon as my wife tweeted the issues, they were on the phone within 2 hours and are now fully focused on fixing our problem..
6th Oct 2016 1:38 am
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6272
To be fair this is a pre production car which has been sat in and played with. Nothing you've said has put me off, the only gripes are Land Rovers lack of presentation.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
Great write up im not in a position to order one of these but after looking at those seat edges its not looking good for the wear properties of the leather my 10 year old D3 with over 200,000 miles on the clock looks similar on the leading edges where you get in and out, i wounder if and when a brake bulb goes the whole car will throw a wobbly i love my D3 and slowly getting used to all its little and not so little problems, as far as electric or manual rear seats is manual for me as its a simple enough operation but if your out its raining and the electric folding seats fail your stuffed its only my opinion, id have one if it was givven but if it was my money id go with a full fat unti the D5 has had a few years under its bonnet.Range Rover Westminster 4.4 TDV8 what a car
Discovery 3 HSE 2006 gone but never forgotten
Member of the 234,567 mile club😎
6th Oct 2016 6:24 am
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6272
I don't see the point of the electric seats either, a solution to a problem that didn't exist. The SE I'm looking at has manual seat fold which will do me, it's never been a problem so far.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
6th Oct 2016 7:04 am
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26779
Well I'm gutted DG. I was really hoping you would come back and tell us it's all a dream, and that the D5 is brilliant in everyway.
It's inexcusable for LR to present it to you in this way. Detail is everything when you are launching a new product.
Thanks for the honest appraisal.
6th Oct 2016 7:35 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50979
The other thing I forgot to mention is that the fold down controls flap which exposes the storage area in the centre console feels flimsy and cheap.
BTW the seats are worse than they appear ...the dye impregnation and crease \ cracking was significant.
They may well be a pre production models but to have both suffering from these issues was a total distraction from anything otherwise good I might have had to say. We walked away from the stand with my son saying maybe it's time to look elsewhere.
I will give it a second chance to redeem itself ...but it now has a bigger hill to climb in the off roading area of my mind.21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
6th Oct 2016 7:38 am
Taztastic
Member Since: 29 Dec 2011
Location: Officers mess
Posts: 100
Quote:
Land Rovers lack of presentation
Five words that speak volumes ...A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
6th Oct 2016 7:49 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
DG wrote:
BTW the seats are worse than they appear ...the dye impregnation and crease \ cracking was significant.
They may well be a pre production models but to have both suffering from these issues was a total distraction from anything otherwise good I might have had to say.
Unfortunately the seat and trim issues were to be expected as these very same issues have dogged the RRS2 and is a flaw that the D5 was going to inherit as they use the same materials. I get to see some very shabby looking RRS2s; initially JLR was willing to cover replacements under warranty but now such wear is classed as 'representative of the marque'.
One hopes they have not inherited the weak door cards as that is a problem easily sorted and an area where the quest for lightness went too far. I will be interested to know if the D5 body panels can be pushed in with as little pressure as it takes on the RRS2.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 20 Sep 2005
Location: Home and Happy
Posts: 6917
That's a disappointment - I saw it briefly on a BBC report about cup holders (cant find it now) and it looked cool
I cant afford / justify spending nearly £70K on one, but if I could I'd think again and at the least, wait a year whilst all the issues where fixed.
I remember reading a D3 review back in late 2004 (just before I ordered mine) in one of the LR mags - the reviewer commented that all the dash warning lights kept coming on and reduced performance etc. - ISTR they put it down to the amount of wading they had been doing - yeah right!
Must admit, that Skoda looks alright, but like ND - not in that colour
Edit - Kodiaq price at top of the range would not break £30K according to Auto Express - watch out DS? - guess it would come down to badge snobbery
Last edited by adam on 6th Oct 2016 8:36 am. Edited 2 times in total
6th Oct 2016 8:22 am
blue meanie D3 Decade
Member Since: 04 Aug 2005
Location: Newbury
Posts: 6861
disappointing indeed! Echo the comments about the Kodiaq though and theeeeennn......???
This somewhat compounds my worries that the Defender replacement might end up very cheaply made due to LR's greed. If this is what they class as "increas[ing] its premium execution", then what hope is there for LR producing a vehicle that can compete with the Jap-trucks and provide value for money?Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
Freelander 2 2007 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Previous: FL2 56 reg SE Manual Black (written off )
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.....she had a real desire to be helpful .....but sadly knew absolutely 
all about it.
Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
