Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6270
BLF- The post wasn't directed to anyone in particular.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
10th Dec 2016 9:59 pm
fat bloke
Member Since: 07 Aug 2006
Location: OXFORD
Posts: 1257
petersw wrote:
They are giving it better off road capability than the likes of X5 Q7 to differentiate it & create a niche market.
It's pretty hard at moment not to think that even a evok is better offroad than them as you might find what land rover isn't so to me that statement is misled. X5 Q7 were always strong on road bias .
No you didnt hit a nerve....but opinion on the D5 is polarised. It may be a Marmite situation .
Anything new is well......new, fresh, different... & either sells by altering the market or flops spectacularly
In the run up to the leaked D5 pictures we all speculated as to what form the D5 would take....photoshopped ideas, some car show models with suicide doors....we all wondered.
The big question was single piece tailgate or split....right up to the wire....it's a single piece affair...that appears to be or is very low with scalp/scull splitting edges.....his wasn't or still is a style or looks thing it's either there or not there.
Most or a lot like this for it's multi use practicality on a host of tasks....others (a few) don't...what Landrover have thought up & fitted is a joke in comparison....that misses the point in a practical use sense. Form in the guise of style has not just preceded but replaced function which is what SUV's are all about.
This is where the list of issues starts...& ends with the early cars not having the eventual larger Diesel engine - so the early adopters make the choice of 2litres of ingenium & cope with that or have the "old" engine that will be offered until the "new" engine when it's fettled. To me they ought to be swapped out by LR FOC as the early adopters are a combination of user development & demonstrators for the product - the risk (another one) that LR take is that those that aren't happy will be vocal & influence the whole market for this model. Irrevocably.
I too have another every day car (Golf 2.0 GT DSG) that has features that are not just good but state of the art....the DSG box being the big one....this is amazing to use with no vices.
Like Nielk the infotainment system (not even top of the pick list range) is a joy to use....& usable.
If both could be retro fitted to my D3 & my XK I would gladly pay for the option. Strangely all the VW / Skoda / Seat cars & SUV's have these or the option. My golf even has a dipstick....
The whole package is a practical, affordable, good value asset that won't be regretted....
The Golf 8 will build on these attributes & take its huge customer base with it...even with the VW scandals, it won't be a daring risk into something different.
If you look at the whole market the situation that LR were the only provider of good, practical well priced SUV's has been eroded by other viable makers providing alternatives at realistic prices..not just look alike crossovers (which are a style "gimmick")
LR have made a mistake....a bit like BMC / BMH did with badge engineering & not understanding the whole market in pitching the range of LR vehicles at a high price end as opposed to having a range of cars at a range of prices.....model variation, range differentiation.....this is different to Jaguar in this respect. They haven't lost the plot.
OK there is another LR model to come between the Evoke & RRS but that can't be like those on here want (& need) - a developed D4 that keeps its usable good features & capabilities but modernises the design from the ten year old + one that it is, without being just a styling exercise.
A tough but not impossible task.
Maybe just maybe the Defender replacement will be the answer in a form that can be bought without a kings ransome being paid.
I just wonder if the D5 will be the Ford Edsel of what they can offer & damage the business at a time they don't need it.
Those who like, want & have ordered the D5 good luck to them & I sincerely hope they enjoy thier purchase......what I'm concerned with is where LR are "going" we have all been part of of where they have come from.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
11th Dec 2016 6:19 am
Robse
Member Since: 10 Jun 2014
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 498
Re: J77
BLFarrar wrote:
....specifically my needs arent realised by the D5 & this isn't anything about style.
Its an SUV offering replacing the Disco 3/4 hopefully with practical features that meet users needs, mine won't be met by the D5.
I'm still wondering, what is it you can do with your D3/4 that you can't do with the D5 ?Velar MY18 D180 S Narvik
Discovery MY2015 3.0 SDV6 SE Corris - Gone
11th Dec 2016 2:39 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73097
Make breakie!
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Seat for enjoying lunch
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And making dinner.
Click image to enlarge
Last edited by DSL on 11th Dec 2016 3:03 pm. Edited 2 times in total
11th Dec 2016 2:45 pm
ruggedpeak
Member Since: 10 Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1625
neilk wrote:
I will say no more on the matter other than I actually have the utmost respect for anyone who has a passion for this fine car (the D4) and the great variety of things they do with it.
This is important in relation to the Discovery and the wider LR brand and JLR.
Many of us who have commented are passionate about the brand and the vehicles. I have owned every type of mainstream LR up the point they launched the Evoque. I have owned nothing else for 25 years, and have bought many new and used from main dealers. I am (was pre-D5) 100% committed to LR and over those 25 years have spent a lot of dosh with the company. They have alienated me as a longstanding customer by not providing a product that meets their own brand values or my needs, despite doing so for 25 years. I guess they've ditched the values I value and changed them to something more trendy and fashionable for the social media generation with the split-second attention span.
Does it matter? In the short term no, they will sell lots of trendy impractical cars. Longer term, when they become less trendy or fashionable they may be in big trouble as the trendy buyers will have moved on and the long term diehards like me will also have moved on to other brands. So they become dependent upon the latest fashion. This throws up a lot of questions over 2ndhand values, development costs and cycles etc with this new strategy.
Corporately you have to wonder if they've lost the plot:
I guess they are embarrassed about a very traditional dealership in the Mews of Kensington who have sold their cars for generations, and want some multi-million pound sterile soulless glass shed somewhere. Perhaps JLR's management should look at those companies who abandoned their heritage and had disastrous results. There are an awful lot of British companies who haven't trashed their history to chase the Twitterati. It is a huge mistake by JLR, as is the D5.
IMHO obviously.Tony
Club RLD Wheel Protector & Sump Guard
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11th Dec 2016 2:58 pm
Canburne
Member Since: 15 Jan 2013
Location: Devon
Posts: 2036
D4 cavernous and usable boot space that can accessed easily through a door which is the same size/shape as the boot space with a split tailgate that is thoroughly practical. 3rd row of seats usable by adults.
D5 cavernous boot space ......
"the inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings....the inherent vice of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries" Winston Churchill
2016 D4 Landmark Club Waitomo ...or is it Club Tempest????
2015 D4 HSE Aintree Green
11th Dec 2016 3:00 pm
ruggedpeak
Member Since: 10 Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1625
Re: J77
Robse wrote:
BLFarrar wrote:
....specifically my needs arent realised by the D5 & this isn't anything about style.
Its an SUV offering replacing the Disco 3/4 hopefully with practical features that meet users needs, mine won't be met by the D5.
I'm still wondering, what is it you can do with your D3/4 that you can't do with the D5 ?
Tow it out of a hole - no proper recovery points according to the dealer
Open the rear doors in a tight car park - rear doors are much longer than D4
Open the tailgate in a multi-storey
Just open the top of the split tailgate so stuff doesn't fall out - perfect when in the mountains or service station car park
Reach across to the passengers side in the front as its too wide
Squeeze through narrow gaps off road
Fit a raised air intake.
Buy a sump guard from the accessory catalogue
Fit a winch
Buy one for a reasonable/realistic price
Reach across the roof when strapping things on
Fit a square hitch receiver?
etc etcTony
Club RLD Wheel Protector & Sump Guard
Club 4x4 Info activated
11th Dec 2016 3:06 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
Re: J77
Robse wrote:
BLFarrar wrote:
....specifically my needs arent realised by the D5 & this isn't anything about style.
Its an SUV offering replacing the Disco 3/4 hopefully with practical features that meet users needs, mine won't be met by the D5.
I'm still wondering, what is it you can do with your D3/4 that you can't do with the D5 ?
This has been answered in full many times on this thread and elsewhere.2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
11th Dec 2016 3:08 pm
B16 KJR
Member Since: 10 Jul 2006
Location: Rosyth, Fife
Posts: 3005
J77 wrote:
B16 KJR wrote:
J77 wrote:
I'll let you know
I'll send my salesman a text tomorrow to confirm the exact month test drives are planned.
Did you ever get confirmation of a January test drive yet ?
Late January
Thanks
11th Dec 2016 3:19 pm
petersw
Member Since: 17 Nov 2012
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1135
Red Merle has barred the pro D5 advocates from this so it's a pointless forum now?Peter
11th Dec 2016 3:21 pm
RDR
Member Since: 24 Mar 2013
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 2260
Re: J77
Robse wrote:
BLFarrar wrote:
....specifically my needs arent realised by the D5 & this isn't anything about style.
Its an SUV offering replacing the Disco 3/4 hopefully with practical features that meet users needs, mine won't be met by the D5.
I'm still wondering, what is it you can do with your D3/4 that you can't do with the D5 ?
off the top of my head for me personally...
Fit my family & stuff in
Transport long loads out the back easily & legally which i do regulary.
Use the lower tailgate to access the permanent roof box and no OEM ladder availible.
Open the tailgate in my sheffield workspace carpark
D5 is a nice car though MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten
MY12 HSE - Gone
MY16 HSE Luxury - Sold
MY20 D5 HSE - Sold
Current RR L460 PHEV
11th Dec 2016 3:29 pm
petersw
Member Since: 17 Nov 2012
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1135
900 mm comes to mindPeter
11th Dec 2016 3:45 pm
petersw
Member Since: 17 Nov 2012
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1135
500mm suspension comes to mindPeter
11th Dec 2016 3:46 pm
jimbg
Member Since: 19 Apr 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 478
Re: J77
ruggedpeak wrote:
Robse wrote:
BLFarrar wrote:
....specifically my needs arent realised by the D5 & this isn't anything about style.
Its an SUV offering replacing the Disco 3/4 hopefully with practical features that meet users needs, mine won't be met by the D5.
I'm still wondering, what is it you can do with your D3/4 that you can't do with the D5 ?
Tow it out of a hole - no proper recovery points according to the dealer
Are you sure ?
Open the rear doors in a tight car park - rear doors are much longer than D4
Of course you can open the doors!!
Open the tailgate in a multi-storey
Of course you can!!
Just open the top of the split tailgate so stuff doesn't fall out - perfect when in the mountains or service station car park
Beleive you can keep the plank up?
Reach across to the passengers side in the front as its too wide
??? Really?
Squeeze through narrow gaps off road
True
Fit a raised air intake.
Most do not need one?
Buy a sump guard from the accessory catalogue
Maybe?
Fit a winch
Most do not need one?
Buy one for a reasonable/realistic price
Starting price is only slightly more
Reach across the roof when strapping things on
Fit a square hitch receiver?
etc etc
I can see that you need features that most do not want and have a problem with the D5, but LR have to address what it believes are the needs of the majority if it is to be a successful car maker.
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