That apart, the Taliban of 20 years ago isn’t the Taliban of today. It seems more liberal, more tolerant but time will tell.
I've heard them being referred to as "Taliban 2.0".
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18th Aug 2021 1:20 pm
pjm-84
Member Since: 04 Oct 2016
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Or Taliban Lite
18th Aug 2021 1:31 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
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Beneficial for them to give that impression at this stage. I’m sceptical.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
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18th Aug 2021 1:33 pm
LT
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18th Aug 2021 1:38 pm
JordsDisco
Member Since: 22 May 2020
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Perhaps, but it can’t be any worse than the corrupt puppet government we supported and who quickly disappeared along with a load of cash.
There was a lot of money made by US and UK firms in Afghanistan as well as individuals. As bit like the PPE/Covid scandal etc.
18th Aug 2021 1:48 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
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Really? I think life in Afghanistan will be far, far worse, especially for females. As presumably do the poor souls who clung to the aircraft leaving Kabul airport.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
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18th Aug 2021 2:16 pm
JordsDisco
Member Since: 22 May 2020
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You maybe right, time will tell, particularly with regard to women’s rights. Mind you Saudi, the Emirates and other Middle Eastern countries are basically not much different.
Clinging onto aircraft is certainly desperate, I can’t think they knew what the consequences would be, but we have our own examples as in crossing the channel in an inflatable or hiding in a frozen food lorry.
18th Aug 2021 2:28 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
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There’s a huge difference between the Talibans version of Sharia Law and the law in Saudi, the Emirates and other Middle Eastern countries.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
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18th Aug 2021 2:38 pm
JordsDisco
Member Since: 22 May 2020
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Based on 20 years ago. ATM it’s impossible to say.
18th Aug 2021 2:55 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
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It’s really not but we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Remember, that in 2017 about 15 million people - half the population - were reported to be living in areas either controlled by the Taliban or where the Taliban were openly present.
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18th Aug 2021 3:21 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
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JordsDisco wrote:
I am not sure I believe all the news reports being peddled either. I’d also be wary about the refugee situation. Fleeing for their lives or wanting a better life? Not quite sure.
That apart, the Taliban of 20 years ago isn’t the Taliban of today. It seems more liberal, more tolerant but time will tell.
Above all. Please let us learn, sending in the troops is not the way to do things, don’t we ever learn?
I'm sure there are plenty of people in Afghanistan who fear for their lives in a Taliban run country. Lots of people with strong personal and political will are targets in any place where the people at the top only accept their version of reality. Russia, Belarus, China are three examples of countries where this also applies. I expect to see the Taliban trying to appear moderate in the capital in front of the world's media and politicians, but I bet it'll be very different out of the limelight in back yard Afghanistan.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
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"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
18th Aug 2021 4:35 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13610
JordsDisco wrote:
Perhaps, but it can’t be any worse than the corrupt puppet government we supported and who quickly disappeared along with a load of cash.
There was a lot of money made by US and UK firms in Afghanistan as well as individuals. As bit like the PPE/Covid scandal etc.
Not sure the money grabbing puppets were killing people who disagreed with their particular interpretation of a Medieval fairy tale.
To think that the lives of women will be no worse when they are already being prevented from working, attending education, going outside without a man's permission, etc., is naïve, frankly.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
The Taliban brought in Chinese representatives when previously negotiating with the West.
The Taliban will spread their creed into Pakistan; the borders are porous and they have influence there
China is already building the China Pakistan Economic Corridor
China wants to access the markets in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran
China wants the resources of Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran
Iran has effectively been under siege by the West for decades: they want to sell their oil; they want to buy food and medicine; the Chinese will trade with anyone
AFAIK, oil pipelines are not banned by Sharia law
China wants influence around the Red Sea
An expansion by China into Eurasia with the USA licking its wounds without any political appetite for another ruck will embolden them when it comes to the Pacific and Taiwan
Pakistan will work with China because China and India have a beef about borders (my enemy's enemy is my friend).
Taliban 2.0 are not so fundamentalist about ideological differences with, say, Saudi or Iran
Russia will not want Chinese influence creeping across the Eurasian landmass where they see themselves in the same way that the Americans see themselves in the Pacific
Turkey will work with Iran / China as best serves their interests - sod Europe, sod NATO, sod the Kurds
Taliban 2.0 may reduce heroin production as they did previously - let's wait and see. Cheap heroin is one way to undermine the West
Knowing that nobody has any the will to attempt another invasion, Taliban 2.0 will have the confidence to wreak vengeance on the West if they are so minded - twenty years of asymmetric warfare taught them a lot and built up a cohort of people willing to martyr themselves for a cause which has now been proven to be The One True Cause
Afghan refugees reaching countries like Germany with a large Turkish diaspora will not be happy and gang/organised crime will increase
Russia will be emboldened in Syria because it now sees Biden as weak
For a proselytizing religion, a wave of refugees is perfect - and perfect cover for trained mujahedeen
As Islamic/Chinese influence starts to increase around it, Israel will feel threatened
If Iran is empowered by the Chinese, there will be increased tensions with Saudi, UAE, etc.
An Iran with China looking over its shoulder will not think twice about flexing its muscles in The Gulf, Israel or Turkey
After Gadhafi fell, MI6 were wandering around Libya trying to buy some of the thousands of ManPADS that were in circulation: Taliban 2.0 now have all the kit the Americans supplied to the Afghan Army. One ManPADS and one commercial flight going into JHK / LHR / SXF and it is coming down - we can't wander around Afghanistan with a cheque-book buying back all the stuff we gave them for free and in which we trained many.
Taliban 2.0 will happily pass Western weapons to China / Pakistan for analysis and neutralisation
Refugees will not be taken into Europe en masse: France, Italy, Greece, etc., all have populist parties opposing mass immigration; it would be political suicide for the incumbent politicians to make the bullets for the populist parties to fire at them.
The leaders of Taliban 2.0 will be drinking, whoring and generally having a good time when out of view. The population of Afghanistan will live in the Hell that is constant fear of fear
If Taliban 2.0 are seen as being too soft, Iran (with China and Pakistan in the wings) will want them to become more strict
A reduction in strictness (as demonstrated all the footage from previously banned mobile 'phones) will increase the speed at which ideas / diktats / religious edicts, etc., can be propagated through the country / world
Taliban 2.0 now have a base, the will and the communications infrastructure to spread their poison throughout the Islamic world and then beyond.
Tony Bliar will not be prosecuted for war crimes but will sustain an impressive income from lectures on this subject. He will not apologise for this omnishambles / cluster-
Boris won't do anything about anything.
Biden will do what his handlers tell him to.
Welcome to 600 AD. Will the last person to leave please [order one of their wives to] extinguish the rush lamp?
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18th Aug 2021 11:14 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13610
On the bright side, the RAF's Voyager crews are getting excellent experience for when they become airline pilots. 7-10 flights a day out of Afghanistan at the moment. It'll be just like flying people home from their summer holidays in Benidorm... Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
19th Aug 2021 9:28 am
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13610
HWN wrote:
The Taliban brought in Chinese representatives when previously negotiating with the West.
[...]
Welcome to 600 AD. Will the last person to leave please [order one of their wives to] extinguish the rush lamp?
In fairness to the Chinese, they're just doing what the British did 150 years ago, and what the Yanks have tried to do since WW2. That the West has forgotten the lessons of history is not the fault of the Chinese.
Anyway, I think it might be time to learn some Chinese...
https://www.chinaeducenter.com/en/learnchinese/lessons.phpVisiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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