Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23816
I also now have a D4 with flappy paddles.
As with other vehicles that I've owned with an autobox and flappy paddles. I'd be perfectly happy not having the paddles at all.
Certainly on the D3 and 6spd D4 that I've previously owned, I found using the stick to nudge up or down gears just as good as the paddles.
I've played around with the paddles a few times, but I've come to the conclusion that on twisty roads it's best to select Sport and leave it in D.
Each to their own, but if I ever owned another earlier model D3 or D4 again, I wouldn't consider doing this mod. even if it was available.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
28th Apr 2014 4:56 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
I really like my flappy paddles, especially for conditions where I want direct control of the gears (slippery downhills etc).
Perhaps my favourite bit is when preparing for an overtake - just a blip down a gear or 2 whilst anticipating the move before powering away. It means I know exactly what is going on and no need for an aggressive kickdown, just silky smooth progression. Then just a gentle squeeze of the upshift to restore it to standard drive mode.
Sweet.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23816
I don't mind the kickdown especially in Sport mode when you're likely to be in a lower gear anywhere. I'm prepared for it and I find the 8spd box reacts very quickly.
I do use command shift, but I found the stick on the D3 and 6spd D4 easy to use. Just as easy as the paddles really. Perhaps because I also drive a manual car regularly.
When auto boxes with paddle shift first came out, I couldn't wait to own one. I thought it would be the best of both worlds. When I finally did get one, on a Saab 95 Aero, I found it to be rather an anti-climax.
A proper DSG box is a different matter entirely. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
28th Apr 2014 8:31 pm
ids
Member Since: 12 May 2009
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 384
Be nice to have a reply.
To be honest - just the PCB's would be a big start. I already have all the values for the resistors in a D3 as well as some values that work for the optional 4way pad the D4 wheel has.
Perhaps Colin would be generous enough to share the PCB layout so we could get some made rather than tieing up his valuable time ?
If not i'm gonna have to get nasty on my wheel and produce an external resistive ladder that I can hard wire the switches over to.....
Illumination may be a problem but working on that. Horn sorted. Just waiting for my RF controller to come from China for the flappy paddles !
Ids
30th Apr 2014 9:05 pm
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
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Rather than just post up more of the same promises and re iterating that this is not and has never been a main stream project for me and something that i can only work on as and when time permits, i would naturally wish to post up when i have further news on this project that still continues.
We have had now had countless prototype boards produced for this project at no small cost, produced two at at a time so we can build one and have a spare in perfecting and tweaking the eventual circuit design.
This has now produced quite a pile of prototype boards
Click image to enlarge
The very latest is Green but is still tin plated and for cost savings is produced as a single square board that requires us to manually cut and shape the individual pcb's.
However things have no progressed to a stage where i have just recieved three boards that are no longer test prototypes but more pre production examples.
As such not only are they now pre cut to our specified outline, but are also fully Gold plated.
Click image to enlarge
This is because that as much as we would like to rush the eventual design into production there are
still two aspects that we really felt needed checking before hand.
The first is that the production PCB's will be properly shaped with the correct and usable outline contour.
The second is that although for prototyping and checking the circuit we can use the normal HASL Tin plating, this can be subject to oxidisation over time and can produce resistances into solder joints that would be critical in this particular application.
After all we do not want something that is not easy to fit or would later become problematical.
I will be properly fitting and testing these in the next few days.
I am sure you will all join in me in hoping that this all goes well
28th May 2014 6:03 pm
Bodsy Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
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Excellent news Colin as I have a D4 flappy paddle wheel just waiting to go on. Happy to test for you as well if needed Bodsys Brake Bible
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset See It Here
28th May 2014 6:14 pm
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Hiya Bodsy, while i have had to make many concessions to get this to a production stage, the design still has all the elements that would allow us to bulid upon it and add to it.
For example while we were not able to find an LED and resistor combination that produced an acceptable heat output, these boards still have all the requisite pads for retro fitting both.
They also still have connectivity for heated wheels, ACC and even flappy paddles.
Warmest Regards
Colin
28th May 2014 6:35 pm
ids
Member Since: 12 May 2009
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 384
Wow Colin
Thats a serious stack of proto's. I have been working on the side for this as I'm keen to crack on as well.
I had managed to work out values for all of the resistors (as well as some spare for the directional pad), got the horn and illumination working fairly well and was going to try and wire the switch pads up to my own resistive ladder I had made ( http://1drv.ms/SR0kSw )
However your solution is much better and better long term solution. Cant wait to see the result !
Ids
28th May 2014 6:56 pm
radders89
Member Since: 30 Aug 2010
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 1051
MY15 D4 SDV6 HSE Corris Grey - Gone
MY05 D3 TDV6 SE Zambezi silver Auto Alpaca leather - Gone
MY02' Seat Leon 1.6s Metallic Black cloth trim with a hint of mould
Club Sandwich
Women... Can't live with em, can't kill em...
28th May 2014 7:14 pm
Gerd
Member Since: 04 May 2010
Location: Regensburg
Posts: 108
Colin,
29th May 2014 7:14 am
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
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Thanks Guys
I know this project has dragged on for what seems like forever due to it's low priority for me and the immense amounts of other things I have on my plate, but thankfully due to an intake of new staff over the last few months and especially karpouzih (Christian my number one minion) we are finally getting to progress on such things as this and will hopefully now very quickly have something to show for it.
Yea ids, I have indeed gone through vast amounts of man hours, effort and quite a lot of prototypes.
I typically get 2 boards per re design and so for every one of the square ones you see in native form in this, there would be a counterpart that was cut out, hand filed to shape, built and tested.
From your link, it looks like you were planning to to try and re use the origional board, not quite convinced you could do this as the switches are in the wrong order as are the main connector pin outs and although it does have an Audio resistive ladder, that is out of order for the D3 IHU otherwise it has no second ladder and uses a microprocessor and 2 LIN BUS connections to the BCU and EMS.
Even in respect of determining the correct resistor values for the resistive ladder I checked and logged resistances from at least a half a dozen examples which showed me that there was quite some tolerances. In the end I made a rig that allowed me to adjust the values to the highest and lowest the ECU's would accept, allowing me to know the exact optimum mid point values.
And you dont want to know about all the effort that has gone into implimenting and testing the wireless function to add some support for flappy paddles and of course the LED / voltage dropper resister combinations that run too hot to be viable and safe.
However I do now have really good news in that I have tested the PCB profile and find that although it is a little tighter than the origional PCB's on first assembly is very acceptable, and in addition barring a little build mishap in the heated switch sub board being built with the ribbon reversed, which I had to sus out earlier today, these pre production prototypes have the green light to now be manufactured in production volumes.
This should realistically take only about 10 days as due to the lower than usual volume and Gold Plating requirement we are sourcing these PCB's more locally and we already have reasonable stocks of the parts required to assemble them.
In fact i have only just finished the first version of the assembly instuctions you might like to read
Having got this project and the PCB's to this stage and since the boards still have all the pads and Circuitry, Christian has taken upon himself to try and find some LED's and resistors that he can trial in the days it will take to get the boards manufactured in the hope that they can be suppied with at least some workable form of back lighting.
I will leave it to him to post up here himself further in respect of this aspect.
To compliment Christains effort and enthusiasm I have agreed to now re take up the projects aspects that might provide support for flappy paddles that may provide a further upgrade / add on to this project.
Folks reading the whole thread will know that I have already spent a huge amount of time producing an optional FM transmitter and Receiver module for this project that parasitically derives power from the Horn circuit.
Physically this optional module is designed to connect on the connector behind the left hand side main PCB and fit in the space behind the side switch PCB as seen here
Click image to enlarge
And even the current Gold Plated production design still leaves a hole in the Main PCB's ground plane as to leave the (Blue) Antennea chip clear of any metal work that might affect it's performance
Click image to enlarge
Of course a production version PCB will be longer and secure the other end of the antennea chip to the PCB.
Colin
30th May 2014 5:04 pm
ids
Member Since: 12 May 2009
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 384
Hi Colin,
Wow I'm impressed. My version did not use the resistors on the main board instead on a separate circuit that was going to install opposite where the heated wheel module sots. I have then wired cables from each pad back to this module. All very nasty to start off with.
Next version was going to be as you have made - not as elegant as making PCB's I have done for a long while however my years at college studying electrics have gone to waste. My final version would be as you did - plug and play - using the D4 loom
My values were recorded as https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=92588842F6C8A725!16485 however I was having issues with finding enough values for the extra five the directional pad has. The recorded voltages are from my Vellman k8055 board I use with my Carpeted with Centrafuse so am looking forward for the extra controls.
If I can help, testing or anything else -please let me know. If not consider me right up at the front of the queue!
Lastly what module were you going to use for the gearbox pads? I had worked on mine, removing the resistors as per Pete Bells thread, the idea being to use the existing paddle loom piggy backed to a four button transmitter. Hadn't decided what I was going to use the other two buttons for yet (I have the heated steering wheel button but no heated wheel or clockspring) but that's just minor. I ended up buying a Chinese eBay special but it appears to work well......
Looking forward to the next instalment.
Ids
Last edited by ids on 31st May 2014 12:00 pm. Edited 4 times in total
31st May 2014 9:07 am
radders89
Member Since: 30 Aug 2010
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 1051
Great stuff Colin. Put me second in line behind IDS please. MY15 D4 SDV6 HSE Corris Grey - Gone
MY05 D3 TDV6 SE Zambezi silver Auto Alpaca leather - Gone
MY02' Seat Leon 1.6s Metallic Black cloth trim with a hint of mould
Club Sandwich
Women... Can't live with em, can't kill em...
31st May 2014 11:46 am
JDB
Member Since: 25 Mar 2010
Location: NW Hampshire
Posts: 2486
In the queue as well please!
31st May 2014 12:01 pm
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Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
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Not long now chaps, (Famous last words )
I will be sure to post up here as soon as these are availiable for purchase on our web shop
ids, i have looked at your data and can't actually make much sense of it at all
I did once have the idea to make it possible for the additional right hand side five way switch, that is used to control the instrument pack menu to be used for control an external item like a carputer as opposed to being a functional copy of left hand side five way switch, but already had more than I could manage on my plate at the time so had to abandon that idea.
It might however still be something we could look into a little later down the line
Thanks for your offer to help, test or anything else ids. I am sure you will be one of the first to write up a review of this conversion kit, but otherwise I believe we have it all pretty much covered.
Regards the flappy paddles:
I am not using some off the shelf transmitter or receiver module that has to be modified. As my last pictures show, I have already developed a custom built FM transmitter PCB that piggy backs directly onto the back of the main LHS PCB and as you see is specifically designed to fit inside the small space behind what would be the ACC side switch sub board. I have designed it such that it connects directly to the paddle switches, which require no modification at all and would be connected to the main board as per OEM design.
My Transmitter / Receiver design encodes and check sums 4 channels, so there is no risk of incorrect operation through interference etc. I also made it such that the ACC switches could be alternately passed through and used as normal in the resistance ladder or fed into the transmitter so they could possibly be used for other things instead of the ACC.
My receiver, while currently only having LEDs that confirm each input, which has been tested, also has the provision and connectivity for a micro controller that I have also added multiple output and control circuitry that should make it possible to interact and control the Gear shift in the vehicle as may be required. I also added the circuitry to connect to micro controller on the reciever to the vehicles CAN BUS if required.
I short, I believe I have pretty much covered quite a diverse array of possibilities in my design and then some
Although I can hopefully shortly offer only the basic conversion kit, at least there is enough flexability incorporated in this design for quite a degree of future expansion possibilities.
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