The business case is like standing at the bottom of a large waterfall and proclaiming there to be a huge amount of water available - you can see a large flow, but the river at the top could be about to dry up.
There are always comparisons made with previous changes, but it is the differences that are more important, not the similarities, and it would be very naive to believe that improvement will be forthcomming for eternity, but some are fixated on that mindset and are blind to the losses that others see.Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
Freelander 2 2007 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Previous: FL2 56 reg SE Manual Black (written off )
Disco 3 06 reg B7S Manual Rimini Red
Disco 2 TD5 Y reg ES Manual Blue - Chipped
Several Discovery 300 TDis
Im warming to it...BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
14th Aug 2016 6:43 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13553
James W wrote:
Edit: PS - Forgot to say - the roofline drops in a D4 too, but internally. The floor comes up higher at the back towards the door, unlike my D2 which was perfectly flat. I think this should be considered in concerns that the rear boot space will lose its 'squared off' capacity - if you don't believe me, put something big and square in the boot and look through the rearmost side window
If it's anything like the rest of the range, the rear seats won't fold flat properly and the load bay will not be a flat floor when the seats are dropped. I think it shows that LR don't worry about ultimate practicality anymore. Presumably because most of their customers never use their LR for practical things: they're just expensive MPVs really.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
14th Aug 2016 6:47 pm
Vanguard
Member Since: 18 Mar 2006
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 127
RDR wrote:
i think there are far fewer "traditionalists" than potential buyers. Landrover need to make sure the D5 sells and sells very well so it needs to be mass marketable. The D4 is a superb car the best ever in my opinion but I'm ready for some new technology and better engines. Landrover need to make sure its economy and safety are comparable to the competition too.
Its got to change, it would be great if they could design a car for us but we are the few i think, I'm on the fence with the D5 i like what i have seen so far but it must meet my practical needs otherwise i will end up with a T6 or something.
I just remember all the backlash and hate towards the D3 from the D2 community.
This is bang on. As has been said here on more than one occasion, its about money more than anything. As mentioned in the article the Evoque gave them revenue to invest now its time to take on the world and they need to get the balance right between exploiting the maximum traction from the brand's history and reputation whilst building cars for the global market. Too much one way they lose the volume sales and too much the other they impact their USP. Critical to get it right but building cars to suit the dwindling band of traditionalists is not going to happen and would be commercial suicide if it did.
14th Aug 2016 7:03 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20842
Member Since: 10 Jun 2014
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 498
Re: Well
BLFarrar wrote:
Im warming to it...
I think BLFarrars account has been hackedVelar MY18 D180 S Narvik
Discovery MY2015 3.0 SDV6 SE Corris - Gone
14th Aug 2016 8:10 pm
fat bloke
Member Since: 07 Aug 2006
Location: OXFORD
Posts: 1257
Just put my old sofa in back with ease, space to spare seats flat so they had better make it the same surely? loadspace wise they have kept very quiet regarding loadspace.
14th Aug 2016 9:10 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
The D4 is head and shoulders above everything else out there for load space, but this doesn't seem to be a major issue amongst the new buyer that LR are targeting.
I'd expect something more around the class average of around 2,000 litres or less. Forget 2,500 litres+!2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
14th Aug 2016 9:52 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6270
Robse wrote:
RDR wrote:
Ok it looks pretty similar to the D4 size wise its obviously lowered in the pic, parked more forward and the sloping roof and decals can play tricks with it. Someone needs to stalk this property and wait for him to come out and open the boot! or do you think they are all disabled to prevent any premature reveal of the tailgate
Presuming it actually does have air suspension ?!
It has air suspension, or there is something seriously wrong with the one in those photos. They didn't drop it from the Sport only the twin speed transfer box which can be added to base models for £600, can't see them dropping air suspension from the Disco.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
14th Aug 2016 11:09 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23830
I think it's a possibility that they'll be a sprung version, as there was on the D3 in the early years. Perhaps even a 2wd version as well.
That would bring the pricing down for an entry level model that would still appeal to those who just need a 7 seater "school run" car or large capacity estate.
The vast majority of D4's never venture off road, other than parking on the school playing field on speech day.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
14th Aug 2016 11:19 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6270
There definitely won't be a 2WD version, LR haven't made a 2WD DS so don't see happening anytime soon on the D5.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
14th Aug 2016 11:27 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23830
There was a 2wd Freelander though. Maybe they will be a 2wd DS in the future.
I'm just guessing at possible future specifications. A lower cost entry level model sometime in the future makes sense to me. Especially as that chassis is likely to be used for many years to come.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
The FL2 had a transverse engine with a Haldex coupling, so a 2WD version was pretty logical, but the D5 will almost certainly a be full-time 4WD as with the others, so a 2WD version wouldn't be such a simple change. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a 2WD DS along the line though.
I can see a base coiler coming back to bring the headline price down.
Vanguard wrote:
This is bang on. As has been said here on more than one occasion, its about money more than anything. As mentioned in the article the Evoque gave them revenue to invest now its time to take on the world and they need to get the balance right between exploiting the maximum traction from the brand's history and reputation whilst building cars for the global market. Too much one way they lose the volume sales and too much the other they impact their USP. Critical to get it right but building cars to suit the dwindling band of traditionalists is not going to happen and would be commercial suicide if it did.
That is correct if they have got it right. In my opinion, they probably have not. When people don't like something, there's often a lot of assumption used to justify it as a business necessity. Personally, I cannot believe that merging one's products so they become more and more similar is a sound business model. I'm sure it's all based on good figures, but figures can be misleading and represent the past only.
I hardly think someone who wants a practical utility vehicle is a rarity. I don't think that a vehicle with a more unique, squarer shape is unsaleable to the masses. I don't think the presence of wheel arches would dampen its appeal. I don't think an airy cabin with good visibility is frowned upon. Neither do I think that a slightly heavier vehicle is such an issue when it directly gains it the status of the best tow car there is. If LR are genuinely trying to strike the right balance then they aren't much cop at it.
If the D5 isn't much bigger, isn't heavier, isn't more practical in general, isn't much cheaper, isn't more durable, isn't more resistant to damage, isn't more unique, then, pray tell me, why wouldn't one buy a RRS instead?Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
Freelander 2 2007 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Previous: FL2 56 reg SE Manual Black (written off )
Disco 3 06 reg B7S Manual Rimini Red
Disco 2 TD5 Y reg ES Manual Blue - Chipped
Several Discovery 300 TDis
15th Aug 2016 8:00 am
110CSW
Member Since: 19 Oct 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 796
LT wrote:
I think it's a possibility that they'll be a sprung version, as there was on the D3 in the early years. Perhaps even a 2wd version as well.
That would bring the pricing down for an entry level model that would still appeal to those who just need a 7 seater "school run" car or large capacity estate.
The vast majority of D4's never venture off road, other than parking on the school playing field on speech day.
I was in a sub two year old steel sprung D4 in Southern Africa recently and it rode beautifully on Tarmac, no TR mind.2014MY Discovery
15th Aug 2016 8:47 am
jimbg
Member Since: 19 Apr 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 478
Quote:
If the D5 isn't much bigger, isn't heavier, isn't more practical in general, isn't much cheaper, isn't more durable, isn't more resistant to damage, isn't more unique, then, pray tell me, why wouldn't one buy a RRS instead?
Well after owning 2 RRS1's I nearly bought a 2016 RRS on autopilot.
But the RRS2 has a much smaller and less practical boot, so we cancelled and are now pinning our hopes on the D5.
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Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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